Part-timers a 'blight on the industry'
Letter to the Editor
By Inman News, Friday, January 16, 2009.Re: 'Defining real estate part-timers' (Jan. 14)
Dear Editor:
I do not know how anyone can think they can do this job part time. I have been doing it for more than 30 years and I wish I could get it all done in only 40 hours per week.
If one would really do their research they would find that 20 percent of agents in the United States make 80 percent of the money.
Those who are in this business on a part-time basis are a blight on the industry. The No. 1 reason for the lack of consumer confidence with our industry is because of those people who proclaim to be professional, focused, educated Realtors when in fact they are giving only half their focus to the affairs of the consumer.
Not only are they giving the rest of us a bad rap but they are making us do twice the work. For those of us who are truly involved and focused on consumer-centric philosophies, this slowdown in the economy is a blessing because it will weed out the weak "part-timers" and we can regain our integrity as a professional industry.
Gail Hurst
Broker in charge
Allen Tate Matthews office
Charlotte, N.C.
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Submitted by Jay Thompson on January 16, 2009 - 12:22pm.
I don't believe that part-time agents are the "The No. 1 reason for the lack of consumer confidence with our industry".
In my opinion, the absurdly low barrier to entry plays a far more important role in the general public's perception of real estate agents as a whole.
About the only qualification one needs to get a real estate license is the ability to fog a mirror.
To get a real estate sales license in Arizona, it takes 90 hours of "class", a relatively clean criminal background and being above the age of 18. Not even a high school diploma is required. You can take those 90 hours of classes in 10 days and be the proud holder of a shiny new real estate sales license.
Want to cut hair instead of sell homes? You'll need to be 23 years old, have at least two years of High School and have 1,600 hours of classroom training. That's almost 18 times the number of classroom hours required for a sales license.
A bad haircut grows back in two weeks. A bad real estate transaction can bankrupt you.
Broker's shoulder a large portion of the blame due to their almost universal willingness to hire anyone with a license and a pulse. How many brokers *truly* and fully vet the agents they take on? How many dismiss a poor performer?
This "hire anyone, take their desk fees and hope they fall into a sale" mentality, and the ludicrous entry requirements, do far more to damage the perception of this industry than part-time agents.
Jay Thompson
Broker / Owner
Thompson's Realty
Blog: www.PhoenixRealEstateGuy.com
.
Submitted by Jillayne Schlicke on January 16, 2009 - 1:46pm.
Hi Jay,
The reason cosmetologists have a high pre-licensing requirement is that they can actually do a lot of serious harm to a person when they're dealing with chemicals. Depending on the state, after they receive the license, there is no required continuing ed.
Realtors/agents DO have continuing ed in most states.
I'm all for higher standards and minimum levels of education. Realize that brokers make money off of agents who are green. Typically the broker's fee split is higher. So we would also need to talk about the related issue of how a broker maintains the gorgeous office for client meetings and provides everything agents want. This will come out of the agent's pocket.
Submitted by Kris Simpson on January 16, 2009 - 1:54pm.
Regarding Mr. Thompson's comment: "Broker's shoulder a large portion of the blame due to their almost universal willingness to hire anyone with a license and a pulse. How many brokers *truly* and fully vet the agents they take on?..."
I have had to change brokerages twice to find a Principal Broker that would answer or return my phone calls when I needed assistance on a transaction. I have made every effort to get as much education as possible and have taken almost triple the number of required education hours to get it.
But if you cannot get support from the management/ownership of the brokerage you are representing, you can be left "swinging in the wind" on a difficult or challenging transaction, with a lot of potential liability. Fortunately, I have found that support now in a Principal Broker with over 45 years in the business and who will ALWAYS respond to a call, giving me the peace of mind to grow my business and sleep at night knowing that I am handling things legally and providing the type of service I want to provide to my clients.
To those brokerages that send recruiting emails and written solicitations to join your company I say - if you have no intention or means of supporting and developing your brokers/agents you should not be recruiting.
Submitted by Joe Hildebrand on January 16, 2009 - 2:13pm.
I whole heartedly disagree. I have done a number of transactions with 'part timers' and they were some of the best transactions I have been a part of to date. I can say the same for full time agents as well.
I think this article paints a broad group of people with an even broader brush!
As for part timers naturally being weeded out, I also disagree! Those same part timers are earning an income somewhere else and aren't dependant on a closing.
Jay is right about the low standards for entry but that is only part of it. As long as Real estate looks like something someone can just try out and drive a Benz and make a ton of cash for no work, we will have this dialogue!
joe hildebrand
denver, co
Submitted by Ruthmarie Hicks on January 16, 2009 - 4:23pm.
There are four types of agents:
1. Competent & Honest
2. Competent & Dishonest (many top producers fall into this category
3. Incompetent & Honest (the road to hell is paved with good intent.)
4. Incompetent & Dishonest (if you add an uninformed client you've got the trifecta from HELL.
NOWHERE in that combo do I mention PT vs. FT. Do you know how many LAZY, STUPID, and DISHONEST full-timers I've run into in three years - unfortunately - TONS.
Competence would be increased if the training for licensing AND continuing ed ramped up significantly. Tougher training would also help get rid of the "get-rich-quick" types. Getting rich quick doesn't wait for long- term licensing requirements and rigorous continuing ed.
In NY licensing and CE are a joke. Designations appear to be a God-given right as long as you pay your money. That's not an EDUCATION. I have a Ph.D. in another field - astounding though it may seem they don't take it away from me if I don't pay my fees. That's because in this case its all about the EDUCATION. Perhaps real estate should smarten up and learn from academia about what educational standards are all about.
Brokers and NAR bear the burden of the blame for this mess. They saw warm bodies with annual fees and high splits and smelled the money. Now they are addicted to it. Even in this market, they are recruiting anyone and everything like crazy.
I also agree with Joe Hildebrand. WIth money coming in from other sources, part-timers can wait out the bad market having a secure income coming in.
Submitted by Joe Hildebrand on January 16, 2009 - 6:29pm.
NAR didn't do a huge favor braodcasting, publishing, and making it a big deal each new milestone hit based on the number of agents.
Remember the big press release stating we hit 2 MILLION agents? Hindsight says that was a bad idea, a red flag, and our first warning.
I think there is a natural ratio of Realtors : public that makes sense. I don't know what that is but it cannot be good that in some states 1 in 39 people are licensed.
How many press releases state the number of Doctors or lawyers, physiologist or biologists? I am sure NAR loved the increase in dues.
With the next boom in certain areas on the horizon, we are doomed to repeat this lesson until we as a group make it a priority to decide how to handle this if at all!
joe hildebrand
denver, co
Submitted by Bill Fooks on January 16, 2009 - 7:27pm.
Bill FooksTFT realty Marketing ServiceWarwick, RI http://www.fooksteam.com Increasing the barrier to entry is not the soluton. I do agree that there should some standard. How about the number of transactions. You learn by doing and being supervised. Lets say year one, 7 transactions. Year two, 10 transactions, etc. After you hit 12 transactions or 24 over two years you can get a brokers liscense. You then can start to earn designations. This way the public can have confidence that you have not just gone to school, but have participated in some transactions. It does bring a little expertise to the table. Until then you carry the title from the state as a "intern" agent. This would put us on the same terminology as doctors and we are operating on ones pocket book. It also lets the public know that we have a seasoned agent overlooking the deal.
Submitted by Jay Thompson on January 16, 2009 - 11:58pm.
Hi Jillayne -
Ok, I'll grant you that a cosmetologist can do a lot of harm to someone with chemicals.
And an agent can wreck someone's finances for life (or at least many years).
So I still don't understand the disparity between the hours required to sit for a licensing exam. Is a cosmetologist 18 times as likely to harm a client as a real estate agent?
Continuing education? I've seen people SLEEP in a continuing education class and still get their little certificate. I have completed an online course in 35 minutes and been granted 3 hours of continuing ed.
That's pathetic.
Don't get me wrong, I've taken some GREAT CE courses. But I often see people touting CE as proof we are increasing our knowledge over time. This simply is not the case in many instances. Watch how many agents wait until the last minute to take their CE. They'll cram it into 3 days -- not to learn something, but to meet some requirement to keep a license. CE does no one any good if nothing is taught or learned.
@Kris - I am a broker and find it appalling that you've had to search for a broker that will return your calls. But sadly, I see that a LOT. There are some wonderful brokers out there, and some horrific ones (as happens in any profession). I'm glad you found one of the good ones.
@Bill Fooks - I'm a little confused. You say that "Increasing the barrier to entry is not the soluton" and then propose an apprentice program (which I think is a good idea). That IS increasing the barrier, isn't it?
Jay Thompson
Broker / Owner
Thompson's Realty
Blog: www.PhoenixRealEstateGuy.com
.
Submitted by Toma Nelson on January 18, 2009 - 5:30am.
I managed a successful agency for several years and hired many brand new agents. I turned many agents away after 10 minutes into an interview, based on their sloppy appearance and inability to communicate at a post elementary school level.
I was amazed to see these agents were quickly picked up by other agencies. I had mixed feelings of horror knowing the affect these agents would have on the reputation of the industry and my satisfaction of knowing this would be the competition.
While the agents I did hire, showed far more potential and drive they were appallingly unprepared. After completing only 72 hours of course work and passing an exam that relies mainly on short term memorization, these agents froze at the site of a contract and new nothing about every day concepts of real estate.
With close Supervision and stringent training most of them became very competent successful agents. If this is what an apprenticeship looks like it would make a difference when applied with new agents who had the motivation and the ability to learn
The issue is, who will monitor the apprentice programs. Qualifications would need to be set for the mentors. Otherwise we have the incompetent spreading further incompetency. Much like we have now with some of the Brokers who themselves sleep through their continuing ed classes.
I'm curious to know what the concensus is on designation courses and how much they really impact competency.
Tomi Nelson
Shorewest Realtors
Green Bay, WI
Submitted by Ed Barrett on January 19, 2009 - 8:21am.
When I acquired a real estate license in 1976 (one 30 hour course at the time!) I had one year until my retirement from the Air Force, so I was a part-time agent. I immediately took to farming a neighborhood during my off hours, and spent countless hours reviewing finished contracts on file in my office, continuously asking questions, and learning the business. Three months after becoming a full-time agent, I was promoted to office manager.
What's my point? Simply that there is no such thing as a part time agent. I've managed many offices over the years, and am of the firm opinion that it's what you know, and how you apply this knowledge to the real estate business, and not how many hours you spend in the office, or otherwise pretending to be a full-time agent that determines your proficiency as a real estate agent.
We now have offices with over 400 agents paying a minimal brokerage fee for each transaction. They have no office working space, and very little supervision, yet they are full-time agents. Give me a break!
Ed Barret
Ed Barrett Realtors
Submitted by Todd Covington on January 19, 2009 - 8:59am.
Jay, I am total with you. Here in South Carolina, it takes a mere 2 week course and a credit check to obtain a real estate license. I have a 4 year degree from the College of Charleston and could have pursued a variety of other careers other than real estate. I chose the real estate industry because I love the home market.
Too often, the reason people choose real estate because they were simply too lazy to got to college and think real estate will be their short cut. These people want to take the same short cut route they have taken their entire life. If they take the quick out and not go to college, and then try the real estate thing because it's only a two week course, guess what customers will receive from these same short cut artist?
Jay, I also have seen people sleep through their real estate classes and be certified.
Requirements, education, and background checks all should be more stringent.
Beaufort South Carolina Real Estate
Submitted by Doug Wolfe on January 21, 2009 - 6:32am.
If there is a "blight" in this industry, it is the lack of civility shown from one "professional" to another, especially in our public discourse. The distinction between full-time and part-time is misleading, especially when used in an agent's advertising. Is someone full-time simply because they have nothing else to do? I agree with Gail that this is a time consuming business,(most businesses are) and like any other business, employees can be hired for some tasks. The free market will determine who stays.
My puny suggestion for the industry is to focus more on our professional conduct and integrity, and not so much on false distinctions.
Doug Wolfe, GRI
Long and Foster Real Estate, Inc
Phoenix, MD
410-667-1900
www.dougwolfe.com
Submitted by Jeff Takle on January 23, 2009 - 7:47am.
I have been a PT agent for 6 years. I can say without blinking or qualm that I put more time, energy, and care into every transaction than any FT agent I've worked with over the same period of time. That I happen to have a successful "other" career does not disqualify me from being good at real estate.
But what I think is important is the general - and pervasive - feeling of disgust with the low quality of many agents. As an officer in the Marines, I once had a CO tell me that "If you ever go into a [company] and see every one of the key officers is a piece of [garbage], then they're not the problem, the boss is."
If there is a PERVASIVE problem of quality in our industry - and I think most agents and customers agree there is - then it's a systemmatic issue, not a quality-of-the-individual issue. It's an issue of training, of standards, of compliance, and of enforcement.
In Massachusetts, you can get a real estate license in 2.5 days, start to finish. The CE rqmt is 1.5 days every 2 years (a joke), and the fine for acting without a license is $500...roughly the price of getting a license. You are not required to become an NAR realtor or join a real estate board or association.
With pathetic standards like these, what kind of agent does the industry expect to generate???
-Jeff Takle
www.RentingYourHome.com - Landlords advertise to 20+ websites, run credit, collect rents, and manage maintenance at 60% savings.
Submitted by Duncan Logan on January 23, 2009 - 11:14am.
I don't think the issue is whether there are too many agents, too low entry standards, part timers or full timers. The issue is that it is tricky for agents or the consumer to clearly differentiate between the great the good and the bad. It doesn't matter what you do, raise entry levels, reduce numbers etc. there will still be varying levels of performance.
Restaurants live or die by their daily performance. Top end restaurants don't moan about bottom end restaurants. It’s not their market and it is easy for them to differentiate from them. It is a highly transparent industry where people will queue to get into a great restaurant with a great reputation while another 10 yards away lies empty.
I attended Inman in NYC and was astounded by the focus on how to get more leads, new customers etc. There were people saying that they have been an agent for 10yrs who get most of their leads from blogging or some website or other. To me this is amazing? If you service 20 clients in a year and you don't get at least 1 referral from each of them every year for the next 7 yrs and then help them sell the house you helped them buy, YOU, not the industry have an issue. I can’t think of a better industry for referrals. You are 1 to 1 with the customer in a massively important decision in their life. Do a great job and surely you have a referral machine for life?
Submitted by George Farmer on January 30, 2009 - 4:10am.
I don't agreeat all. What is part time, the intelligent, savy and experienced agent mom who cares for her children but still is available when needed? What is full time, the agent who sits in the office all day with nothing to do in the down market?
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