Broker: MLS training goes too far
Flat-fee company official complains to DOJ, FTC
By Glenn Roberts Jr., Thursday, January 29, 2009.
A real estate broker whose company operates in 23 states has complained to federal officials about a North Carolina multiple listing service that requires participants to physically attend a training session to learn about a new MLS technology platform.
Participants who do not complete the training will not be allowed to access the system.
Ryan Gehris, who is a broker of record for flat-fee real estate company Housepad.com in 10 of those states, said in a Tuesday letter to U.S. Justice Department and Federal Trade Commission officials that he believes the in-person training requirement constitutes a restraint of trade violation.
While Gehris said it's common for MLSs to require an in-person visit when joining, he said it's unusual for MLSs to require in-person trainings -- typically such training is also offered online.
About one-quarter of the roughly 80 multiple listing services that Gehris' company has joined required "some sort of attendance to become a member," Gehris said, and "this is the first time of all of these (MLSs) -- to have this requirement that I have to go back now" for training.
An official at Triad MLS, a regional MLS based in High Point, N.C., meanwhile, said the training is not intended to be a burden to participants and is required because of the substantial changes in technology.
"We are not trying to target any specific business model -- we're trying to help our members be more familiar with the new technology," said Richard Renton, executive vice president for Triad MLS.
The MLS has received "very few" complaints from members about the training requirement, adding that those complaints have come primarily from brokers based in other states.
Renton said that the MLS has consulted with lawyers about the training requirement to check compliance with a National Association of Realtors MLS policy handbook.
NAR policy, he said, "expressly permits ... and does not prohibit periodic training requirements."
In-person training will help to ensure that members are actually present during the training, Renton said. The MLS is offering training over a three-week period.
"There was enough difference and disparity between (the old and new) MLS systems that we felt it was important to have them come be trained here," Renton said.
He noted that the implementation of the Tempo 5 system has not gone smoothly in some other market areas (see Inman News), and that the training sessions were scheduled during a typically slow time of year for the real estate industry.
Gehris had requested that the Triad MLS waive the in-person training requirement -- he said in his complaint letter that he already had experience using Tempo 5 and that he would "incur significant and disproportionate costs compared to their local members in order to meet this requirement."
He also stated in the complaint letter, "Beyond my self-interest, this (requirement) would make MLS membership next to impossible for an MLS member in Hawaii, Alaska or Guam."
In 2007 Gehris complained to federal officials after his application to an MLS in Oklahoma was apparently denied -- MLS officials later stated that the denial letter was a "miscommunication between the board and staff" and apologized for the error (see Inman News).
***
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Submitted by Tina Merritt on January 29, 2009 - 4:37am.
Let me get this straight - the requirement is due to the Triad MLS "trying to help our members be more familiar with the new technology," - have they never heard of a webinar??????
Submitted by Robert A. Hulme on January 29, 2009 - 4:46am.
Hardship situations should be allowed to have an alternate method of training. I am sure the MLS is not targeting this group or any other specific group. Individual cases should be considered for another method of training depending on their circumstance.
Robert A. Hulme
Realtor, GRI, e-PRO
Prudential Utah Real Estate
Loan Officer
Envision Lending Group, Inc.
www.UtahCountyRealEstate.us
www.UtahHomesForSale.ws
801-885-2586
Submitted by Todd Siegel on January 29, 2009 - 4:48am.
If Ryan is a member of 80 MLSs he could probably teach this class in NC. To incur the inconvenience and expense to fly in from out of state to sit in an mls training class for a person who has this kind of expereince with MLS's is not necessary, and anyone who has sat in one of these classes knows it. There is nothing earth shattering Ryan could possibly learn that he couldn't get from a 1 page memo distributed by the MLS, and he likely wouldn't even need that. These in person rules are overly burdensome on out of state members and in most cases not necessary. Ryan like every other member of the MLS must know how to enter data in to the MLS correctly, and if missing a class causes him to violate one of these rules then he accepts the fines or whatever penalties result, but he should not prohibited from being a member.
Submitted by Joseph Bridges on January 29, 2009 - 5:27am.
Sometimes the in person training can be a chore but often times people do need the assistance in person.
Could the MLS video the first training and then offer it online?
Could there be online interactive training?
Corporate america has been doing distance learning and training for many years to save time and money so there is no reason that we can't do that in real estate.
Visit the blog at: http://www.InternetRealEstateSuccess.com
Real Estate Resources at: http://www.OnlineRealEstateSuccess.com
Submitted by REALonomics .net on January 29, 2009 - 6:25am.
Once again, more control tactics in the industry.
Although it is likely true that the purpose of such training is to educate users for adequate use of the MLS, any training that requires physical presence is not only unnecessary, it's silly, impractical, expensive and reminds me of former modes of transportation such as buggies and whips!
The real estate industry continues to perpetuate a model built upon control. We have warned and spoken about the danger of business models predicated upon control schemes.
See Nori's Leaky World at:
http://realonomics.net/2008/04/noris-leaky-world/
See REALonopoly at:
http://realonomics.net/2008/05/realonopoly-does-anyone-still-wanna-play-...
Yikes!
Donald Teel - Founder
President & CEO
e-Partner
www.epartnerusa.com
REALonomics
www.realonomics.net
877-380-1000
Submitted by Jay Seville -- Arlington virginia condos on January 29, 2009 - 6:57am.
Yes, this is an pathetic lack of common sense by the backwards NC MLS. To force people to go through training who do not need any training is an affront to their independence and a hit on economic liberty. IT is also a pathetic power play that shows how backwards the NC real estate industry is technologically speaking.
I almost moved there--bought 2 pieces of land there-and could not believe how backwards the industry was there in terms of real estate 2.0. I was excited at how uncompetitive it was as I was moving the business there.
This particular MLS needs to get a clue--you offer MLS training to those who want it--you don't blindly force people to take tech training they do NOT require. Just because so many of your members are behind does not mean others with bigger spheres of influence are.
Good for Housepad fighting the real estate dinosaurs. I'm pretty sure I know how these mandate from the top buffoons voted.
Submitted by Trish Barnett on January 29, 2009 - 7:07am.
Trish Barnett
Broker/Owner
RE/MAX Shoals
Florence, Alabama
256-436-2500
www.ilovetheshoals.com
I'm certain this comment will receive a lot of backlash and I will be considered backwards as well but I can't help but wonder why a licensed real estate sales agent or broker would require access to an MLS in an area that it would be a hardship for them to physically be in. Can you properly represent buyers and sellers in an area you can't get to? Shouldn't you consider a referral?
Submitted by Trish Barnett on January 29, 2009 - 7:12am.
Trish Barnett
RE/MAX Shoals
Florence, Alabama
256-436-2500
www.ilovetheshoals.com
Submitted by Scott Allan on January 29, 2009 - 7:17am.
MLS has gone too far for sure. I am in real estate in New Jersey and it's just an inconvenience. I like the guy who mentioned webinars. Everything is done on webinars today. Why can't we do that? Get with it MLS!!
Submitted by Phillip Jones on January 29, 2009 - 8:01am.
It's time to ditch the 900+ MLS's of in the US.
If I had Bill Gates fortune, staff and talent at my disposal I could build a better national MLS over a weekend retreat.
It's really quite amusing to visit the various MLS software providers booths at the NAR conventions and see how "90's" the software tools are.
As far as the MLS board requiring in person attendance for orientations and follow up trainings go, thats just 'tradition' rearing its ugly head. I'm sure that the policies will change, especially if they want to keep collecting dues from out of town brokers.
Good selling!
Regards,
Phillip E. Jones, Broker/Owner
Your Choice Real Estate, Inc.
The Best Value in Real Estate!
151-18 College Drive
Orange Park, FL 32065
Phone: (904) 298-2679 Ext 501
Toll Free (888) 490-0671 Ext 501
Fax: (866) 923-9990
www.ycre.net
Submitted by Maureen Francis on January 29, 2009 - 8:15am.
I wish my office meetings were conducted by webinar and my office is only 1.5 miles from my house. A webinar would be cheap for the MLS to offer, and much more convenient for all of the participants.
Trish, is there any requirement to being a member of an MLS that you represent buyers and sellers? Just asking.
Maureen Francis
SKBK Sotheby's International Realty
248.430.4450
www.miOaklandCounty.com
Submitted by Key Yessaad on January 29, 2009 - 8:33am.
Technology allows those who cannot attend in person to complete the same course requirements as those who choose to do so in person... in fact such Webinars, once archived, allow realtors to visit often and take their time absorbing the material!!!
Key Yessaad - Web Trainer
Real Estate Web Trainer
341 S, College Rd, Ste 11-2034
Wilmington, NC 28403-1622
(910) 538-6610
key@RealEstateWebTrainer.com
www.RealEstateWebTrainer.com
Submitted by Brett Tousley on January 29, 2009 - 8:36am.
Physically visiting an area in which you wish to serve the public is somehow inflicting significant and disproportionate costs?
I'm surprised that anyone with access to an mls would find required, in person training out of line. Routinely, I see agents and brokers lamenting the low financial and educational requirements in our industry. Yet, when an mls steps up and attempts to raise the bar in an effort to keep the data in the database accurate, they've somehow gone too far?
Whether Mr. Gehris is or is not familiar with the new system makes no difference. He has not been singled out, but seeks special treatment due to his out of state status. If the board were to bow to his wishes, they would have to bow to every member with a part time job, kids in school or other personal issues.
Submitted by Austin Smith on January 29, 2009 - 9:46am.
I agree with Trish.
Also, look at it from the MLS' or even the vendor's perspective. They are putting their necks out to deliver a productivity tool to a group of cranky agents. These companies are investing money, time, and manpower to introduce the new technology. They need some sort of guarantee that their constituency will be able to effectively use the new product and that their fledgling investment isn't a waste. By requiring everyone to show up FOR ONE DAY, they can be sure they won't have to deal with anybody complaining about not being able to use a certain new function.
I say, stop wasting the vendor's time. Buck up and make a day trip. Grab a cup of coffee and a danish and drive a couple hours so that you can get some hands on training from the people that know the system the best. Last of all, do your broker or MLS a favor. Making a day trip is the least you can do for the organization that provides EVERY productivity tool you use in your day-to-day. Think of all the times they have provided assitance for their agents; now they are calling on you.
Submitted by Austin Smith on January 29, 2009 - 9:49am.
And Maureen, regardless of which MLS you are a aprt of, is it not the very definition of a REALTOR to represent buyers and sellers? what else do you do?? just asking.
Submitted by John Rakoci on January 29, 2009 - 1:43pm.
If it is important enough to join the MLS it should not be a problem abiding by their rules. Sounds like the 1st to complain about being fined for not following other rules.
Submitted by Karen Leonardi on January 29, 2009 - 2:32pm.
Having been a former MLS Executive, I can understand the general requirement to want people to attend training in-person. However, the MLS needs to be flexible and grant exceptions to individuals like Mr. Gehris who obviously already knows Tempo 5.0. There is no "one size fits all" when it comes to agents and brokers. I love webinars...very convenient and can even be set up so participants can ask questions live or electronically. Even the MLS vendors are now doing webinars for demo's. It's too bad that the situation has escalated to this level when it seems there was a very simple solution in the beginning. I'm not familiar with Triad but in general, many of the MLSs/Associations don't know how to adapt to individual circumstances, they only know how to take a hard line and they tend to forget that the member is the CUSTOMER!
Karen Wingender
Nothnagle Realtors
Rochester, NY
Submitted by Lawrence Bunnell on January 29, 2009 - 2:46pm.
http://www.flatfeemls.pn/2009/01/29/mls-board-requires-out-of-town-broke...
Submitted by Derek Eisenberg on January 29, 2009 - 2:49pm.
Austin,
Here is the definition of Realtor. A person who works in the real-estate business and is a member of the National Association of Realtors, or one of its constituent boards, and abides by its Code of Ethics.
Appraisers can be Realtors. So can Mortgage Brokers. All you have to do is join NAR to be a Realtor. There is no requirement you have a real estate license. A Realtor is simply a member of a Trade Group.
As for Ryan Gehris's difficulties, besides the fact that a Webinar is more efficient, Mr Gehris as he states has used Tempo 5 in other markets. As another broker in over 70 MLSs, I can tell you that these training classes are juvenile. I know more than the teacher usually.
Austin, your comments and Trish's to Maureen did a great job of proving Ryan's point; that while the basic course may be about education, the "mandatory attendance" part is about keeping outsiders out of their marketplace. Maureen is right. Webinar's achieve the same thing and can be taken at the Realtor's convenience.
Derek Eisenberg
http://www.mls2u.com
Submitted by Jose Lopez on January 29, 2009 - 4:26pm.
It's Mine! All Mine! I have two little ones under 5, and they contantly fight over things saying those words. It seems to me that some MLS boards are just protecting their turf, plain and simple. It is about control, and power and politics. It has nothing to do with what is good for the MLS members, or folowing federal law.
Jose Lopez
www.sellsarasota.com
www.fl-repos.com
Submitted by Ned Carey on January 29, 2009 - 5:08pm.
I agree with most commenters above that this is stupid, however I also believe the Triad MLS has the right to run their business poorly.
Ned Carey
http://baltimorerealestateinvestingblog.com/
Submitted by Ted Mackel on January 29, 2009 - 9:30pm.
I think he should attend. The Tempo software is so antiquated that it was probably written in cobalt on punch cards. The software is an embarrassment to easy of use. The software engineers could not have tried any harder to make such a non intuitive pile of rubbish.
Mr. Gehris should take the class so he can learn how to tolerate a programmer's dream and an end user's nightmare.
Submitted by Bob Connors on January 30, 2009 - 7:30am.
Hysterical. Going to your local MLS for help with new technology is like attending a customer service seminar at the local Post Office.
"Please drive, fly, or walk down to our office, try your best to find parking, sit in a crowded room, and listen to us TALK about technology." Ah yes, the wonderful burden of technology. I love how all the new technology I use adds new hurdles and inconveniences to my life. Bravo MLS!
Here's a new idea from the MLS folks for an iphone app: instead of that silly app that allows your to hold up your phone to any song and the phone searches a database and in seconds tells you song, artist, title, and where to buy it; your local MLS has an app that can direct you to the closest pay phone booth where you are told to look in the yellow pages under "music" to find the nearest record store. The MLS app then instructs you to hop in your Buick and head over to the local store, describe a line or two from the song to the condescending clerk and see what he says. Bam! Now that's technology, folks!
Bob Connors
www.realasave.com